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Post by TAdan on Jun 17, 2008 5:55:15 GMT -8
I was compelled to start this thread after seeing this discussion on TGO. www.thirdgen.org/techboard/history-restoration/480025-whats-83-trans-am.html#post3789555I would like to hear from everyone on their thoughts and experiences with restoring 82-84 Firebirds to factory correct specs. Right now many parts are virtually impossible to find, aftermarket support is extremely limited, and as Kizz said, GM has all but forgotten about them. I have only seen a handful of early Birds that I would consider to be "correct" restorations. They all required an immense effort by their owners. I think all cars (Model-T's, Muscle cars, etc) all go through their cycles. As the generation that grew up lusting after them can finally afford them, the prices increase, and aftermarket support grows with demand. Just look at the 2nd gens. The early thirdgen years saw some of the highest production numbers for Firebirds. You would think it would be easier to find parts.  Lets hear what you have to say  |
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Post by wildjeff on Jun 18, 2008 20:57:19 GMT -8
I was thinking about starting the exact same thread. I'm in the midst of restoring an 83 L69. And I do mean restoring. The first thing I had to do was to decide what my purpose for this car was going to be, it's going to be restored weekend driver.
Let me start by calling out the things that will be different, the rear end and rear control arms are going to be powder coated black. Even though the originals were unfinished, like most cars in this vintage the unfinished metal had rusted. With my car this meant the original finish was gone even though the part was still good. So I powder coated it to make it look nice and protect it.
I'm also adding some options such as power seats and rear hatch release that were not originally installed on my car. But I will be using the correct 1983 parts. I will also be installing cruise control and again using correct 1983 parts.
Now, some of the things I'm doing to make my restoration correct. I'll start with the door panels. My original door panels were mostly useless. I purchased a set of door panels from classic industries however they are not usable. Although the panel layout is correct the stitching and fabric is incorrect. So the only part I'll be able to use is the backboard. I'm going to need to remove all the fabric and vinyl, get the correct fabric and take it to an upholstery shop so that they can copy my originals.
I was able to buy 10 yards of original OEM fabric that I will be using for the door panels as well as to have seat covers made. And by the way the fabric is dammed expenses, I think I paid like 85 dollars a yard.
My interior plastic is not broken or scratched however it is faded. There's a company in Canada which sells a solvent based ABS plastic die which I'll be looking into. They say they can match my original color and since it's a solvent based product it should not scratched off or peel, supposed to actually melt into the plastic and be permanent.
I'm still debating on paint, everyone says go with base coat/clearcoat but I don't think it looks right and I would know its wrong, which would just bug the heck out of me. I'll probably end up using the original enamel single stage but I have not committed to anything yet.
As far as the drive train and mechanicals are concerned, I found it easier to find parts although the exhaust system will be a challenge. If I just wanted to have someone put an exhausted in, that would be easy but trying to find the correct hangers and muffler is proving to be more challenging.
One last area I found to be challenging is the parts that were originally gold/cadmium plated, any replacement parts, for example the brake booster, you buy now will be painted black. I'm actually the process of sending my brake booster outs to be restored. It will be replated the original cadmium color and rebuilt. I also have the number of brackets which I'm having replated locally. Hopefully I'll get them back in the next week or so.
Oh and those dammed exhaust check valves, they are supposed to be cadmium plated but the replacements are black and not even the right shape. I'm not sure what I'm going to do about that yet.
Overall I have about ten different sources that I use for finding parts. So trying to find one part in ten different places can really take up a lot of time, much more than I had originally anticipated. Good thing I'm not a strict schedule
My that’s a lot of words.
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Post by 1982TA on Jun 19, 2008 4:09:45 GMT -8
I can't remember if I asked you this already, but where did you get your OEM fabric from? I've been trying to find some fabric for some time now.
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Post by wildjeff on Jun 19, 2008 6:19:29 GMT -8
It came for SMS auto fabric in Oregon. I bought the brown/tan for my 83 last year. I just checked on the charcoal parella cloth for 82 and they don’t have it  , I need some for my seat backs. they also don’t have any tan parella cloth. They do have the gray parella which they said they could dye to match the charcoal color but I’m skeptical. |
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Post by mrturbota on Jun 19, 2008 7:26:04 GMT -8
That's the problem with any reproduced parts now, they are not quite the same as original. Even second gen Trans Ams/Firebirds have the same problems. And it's always the material, and doorpanels. Emblems for the thirdgens are different as well. That's why I buy and keep NOS stuff. WildJeff, Why powercoat in black? Most places can do bare metal color, then it would be closer to fully restored to original. Just wondering. George  |
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Post by wildjeff on Jun 19, 2008 20:08:36 GMT -8
I chose black for two reasons, first I did explore the idea of using a bare metal looking powder coat. However, stamped bare metal has a certain “grain” pattern in it. When I did some tests with metal colored powder coat it looks like metal colored powder coat and I don't think it looked quite right. And second, black is a standard suspension color. Even some of the later thirdgens have black rear control arms and rear end. Since the original patina of my rear suspension was gone and I wanted to use the same original pieces I felt black is a good standard color without trying to “hide” the fact that it had been powder coated.
The front suspension however was covered in grease and dirt. This was good because it was preserved so all I need to do is cleanup and sprayed with a clear protective coating. Then it should look original and still be protected.
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Post by drdirt on Jun 23, 2008 18:11:51 GMT -8
Good luck guys, I love to see stone stock restos, and I'm glad you guys are stepping up to preserve some examples of our cars, while clods like me go the modification route. It's scary to think of an eighties car as a resto candidate, though. Sorry, wildjeff, I had a good, stock muffler with tailpipes until last December, when it was junked in favor of a Magnaflow setup. Wish I would have had the foresight to hang on to it, but my garage is overflowing with used parts and other junk anyway!
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Post by 1982TA on Jun 25, 2008 18:25:58 GMT -8
Wild Jeff...any chance that the company with the correct material can send you a sample of it dyed the charcoal color just to see how it matches up to stock?? What about the door panels also? Have you found anybody that has the correct charcoal vinyl? If you look close at it, it almost has a "marbled" pattern to it somewhat. I know that no aftermarket material is available with that correct pattern, only a solid color. What about carpeting? I was thinking of maybe keeping my stock carpet, cleaning it really good, and maybe dying it because it is somewhat faded in spots. It's not really in bad shape actually...just needs a good cleaning. I haven't been able to find any correct aftermarket carpets either. All I can ever find is the 2 piece kind, and if it's one piece, you have to cut everything and I'm sure it's not correct anyway. I'm also wondering what to do with the carpeted cargo panels. I know you can get a rear hatch carpet aftermarket, but unless you go with everything, the colors wont match. I remember "The Paddock" had pre-cut carpet pieces for the rear cargo panels. It's the only place I have seen that has those...short of cutting them yourself with whatever carpet you get. My biggest thing is having everything match in color and texture. Unless you go with the same vendor for everything it wont match...but even if you do it probably still wont match  the carpeting on my cargo panels looks worn and ratty, same with the floor hatch, and it's peeling at the edges. Not to mention it's pretty faded. I don't know where to look for replacements. |
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Post by wildjeff on Jun 26, 2008 18:53:22 GMT -8
Here is the place www.smsautofabrics.com/ for the fabric/vinyl. 1982TA - I don’t know if they would send out a dye sample or not. I did ask about the vinyl and they said they do have OEM vinyl. They’ll probably send you a sample if you email them. I don’t know if they have the carpet. I bought some carpet for my 83 from ACC, it’s the right color and nap but has the 2 peace heel pad and the backing is thinner. My original one piece heel pad is good so I’m thinking about cutting it off the old carpet and putting it on the new carpet. I’m also thinking about shaving my old carpet to get to the bare backing then gluing the new ACC carpet on that. I should get an original fit that way. I received my plated parts and power coated rear-end back and started putting it all together. Here are some photos. The rear end is mostly together I just need to finish the cover and install the brake lines. There will still be more work to do when it goes in the car but it’s almost done for now. You can also see the front struts which where completely rebuilt. I bought Monroe Sensa-Trac since they are black and removed the sticker. I also had to power coat the cast iron knuckle, they were discolors but otherwise in good shape. For the knuckle I used cast iron color power coat from Eastwood, it turned out really well. It doesn’t look powered coated at all. Rear end. www.82firebird.com/images/hostedphotos/rearend.jpgparts after plating. www.82firebird.com/images/hostedphotos/parts.jpg |
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Post by TAdan on Jun 27, 2008 4:10:29 GMT -8
Thanks for all the feedback guys. As this thread progresses I'd like to identify the areas where the aftermarket or restoration parts need to be corrected... So lets see...
Palex Fabric for seats and door panels.
Carpet / heel pad (I had the same problem with my car).
Decals. (Most striping is reproduced incorrectly)
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Post by 1982TA on Jun 28, 2008 8:38:46 GMT -8
Decals. (Most striping is reproduced incorrectly) I thought Phoenix Graphics had correct decals since they are licensed. Not sure about the other decal companies. |
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Post by Agent13 on Jun 28, 2008 10:11:11 GMT -8
Decals. (Most striping is reproduced incorrectly) I thought Phoenix Graphics had correct decals since they are licensed. Not sure about the other decal companies. Nope. Their striping isn't correct and their nose bird is the same size as a sail panel bird. The color for the DT500 decals is also wrong. |
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Post by mrturbota on Jun 28, 2008 14:29:42 GMT -8
Even some of their second gen Trans Am decals are off. And not just the stripping, but colors in the birds. George |
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Post by wildjeff on Jun 30, 2008 21:16:38 GMT -8
Here's what I found so far (and can remember while I sit here)
===========Interior===========================
The interior is probably going to be one of the most difficult areas to restore properly. Plastic tends to age if not taking care of. It's also one of the most used areas and the most visible.
*headliner - the current reproduction ABS headliner backings are not the correct material and from what I've heard don't fit too well.
*door panels - the reproduction door panels use in correct material and in correct stitching. Although, they are the correct pattern. This means you can get to the correct materials in have them re-sown. The backer board is black instead it tan, but it's not really visible.
*seats - there are reproduction seat upholstery kits, they use in correct material but the pattern and fit is correct. So, if you can find the correct NOS material you can have the correct seat covers made. The seat foam is not currently being reproduced, nor are the seat frames. Although they can usually be reused
*carpet - reproduction carpet is available which is close in color and appearance, however, the reproduction carpet has a thinner backing and incorrect keel pad.
*plastic trim - the plastic trim is currently not being reproduced, there are good usable pieces out there but they can be difficult to find. The plastic trim and then came with my car is faded but otherwise undamaged. I'm going to try a solvent based plastic die to see if I can bring them back to life.
==========Exterior/suspension==================
*rubber seals - for the time being the various rubber seals are being produced by GM.
*Tie rod ends - replacement tie rod ends have a slightly different head shape.
*anything originally gold cadmium plated is usually painted black, such as replacement break boosters.
===========Mechanical=======================
* A good majority of the mechanical systems, I'm talking about the engine, tranny and such, have parts available. If you're trying to replace a number matching starter, for example, it's probably the easiest to buy a new starter and use it for parts to rebuild your original. You can also apply this to almost everything, alternator, air conditioning compressor.
*radiator - GM does sell new radiators which are almost identical to original but there are some differences. The new radiators have extra openings for low coolant sensor and an extra water outlet. Radiators are typically rebuildable so your original is in reasonable shape it may be savable.
*brakes - current brake rotors have a slightly different hub design. They function the same but just look a little bit different. Also, replacement break hoses have a more rounded head shape, while the originals are squarer. Some brake pad manufactures use colors other than black.
*air check valves - originally they were gold cadmium plated but replacements are either zinc or painted black and may not be the correct shape.
*battery- the original Delco freedom II batteries are no longer available.
*R12 – R12 is no longer available however R134a can be substituted. The original appearance is maintained except a high and low pressure valves would be changed to accommodate the R134a equipment
*A/C hose - replacement A/C hoses are not ribbed.
*fan belt - original GM fan belts are no longer available, replacement belts will have different markings
*sparkplug wires - GM does sell replacement sparkplug wires sets however they do not have the correct markings.
*AC/heater blower motor - the current AC Delco replacement motor is a bit different design, it even looks physically different than the original. The original can be disassembled and rebuilt.
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Post by TAdan on Jul 1, 2008 5:46:32 GMT -8
Continuing on Jeffs post.
======Exterior===========
*Replacement Sheetmetal. (Fenders, doors, hoods) Are there any GM approved pieces being made? I'm guessing it is all still cheap repro parts from Asia.
*Bumpers. Again, I havent seen any GM approved pieces. All just generic body shop replacement parts.
*Door Handles. Available from GM resto parts.
*Decals/Badges. S/E sail panel badges are not available at all. S/E lower body striping is not available at all. 1983/84 Recaro sail birds are not available.
*Trans Am Lower body striping is not accurately reproduced. Most companies simply provide you with a roll of various sized pin-striping. (15th T/A, 84 Recaro, W62, and non-W62)...
*82-84 Nose birds... not reproduced, sail panel birds are usually substituted. Medium sized 84 T/A hood bird decal (10") not reproduced.
*83-84 DX1 Hood birds are reproduced pretty accurately.
*Taillight birds. Rare color S/E birds (Jade), 15th T/A, are not reproduced. Gold and Silver are available.
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, I need some for my seat backs. they also don’t have any tan parella cloth. They do have the gray parella which they said they could dye to match the charcoal color but I’m skeptical. 
the carpeting on my cargo panels looks worn and ratty, same with the floor hatch, and it's peeling at the edges. Not to mention it's pretty faded. I don't know where to look for replacements.
